The Case Against Trinitarianism

*** WARNING: This thread is not about debating the trinity or defending trinitarianism. Trinitarian apologists are not welcome to post in this thread. ***

*** WARNING: What is welcome in this thread are comments aimed at strengthening the case against trinitarianism. ***

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Originally Posted by Sloth what drew you toward Unitarianism Pete?

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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy A. The 1C. It must be important if God put it first and used singular pronoun and I cannot think of who it would especially apply to more than the Son . B. Rejection of mysticism/dualism. 1 ≠ 2 ≠ 3. Or 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 and 1 = 1 + 1. C. Definition, logic, & language. Consider the statement, "Jesus (the son) was raised from the dead by God (the father) to be the first fruits and is our only Mediator to God." Father. Son. By definition, not the same. And son is created by the father. No exceptions to this prerequisite arrangement. If this is not their relationship, then words mean nothing. Jesus said God is greater, more knowledgable & more glorious. By definition, these cannot be one and the same. God incarnate is not prophesied in the OT. It's not even implied in the vast majority of the NT text. The trinity is not in the Bible & Jesus never said to worship a triune God. Subject v object of sentence. Jesus has many titles. Many of them are 'of God.' The umbrella of Bob is not Bob. "I drank from the cup" ≠ "I told my servant to drink from the cup and he drank from it." Raised from the dead means Jesus was acted upon, the object of action by the subject, God. By definition, this is not the same as Jesus rose from the dead, doing the action himself. "First" implies a coming series of like. My first girlfriend was like others that followed. She was not fundamentally different from those that followed. We don't count Apples and Oranges as Apples. A mediator acts between 2 parties. A mediator, by definition, is not also one of the 2 parties he is mediating for. I like , superpowers, etc. However, not even God can violate logic. For instance, He cannot be all-knowing and get lost. He cannot be all powerful and actually suffer & die as Jesus did. He cannot be all holy and sinful. The resurrected Jesus would not say he is going to his God if he were God incarnate for the same reason that one cannot sit on their own right side. This is because in reality contradictions do not exist. I hope that answers your question. I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. Galileo Galilei

OPENING COMMENT

Obviously, I am not going to make the case in a single post. The reason this thread is necessary, in my opinion, is because it cannot be discussed in other religious threads. It cannot be discussed for as soon as it is brought up, trinitarian apologists sweep aside any evidence against the trinity and replace it with copious commentary but scant Scripture to support it. Indeed, too many threads now are hijacked by Trinitarian apologists.

Such conversations about trinitarianism are therefore void of the normal evidence based conversation one might have about say, the charge that OJ Simpson murdered his wife. That is, there is evidence for the charge as well as exculpatory evidence. No debate or trial with any legitimacy is one-sided. To compensate for 100's of Trinitarian defended threads, this one thread may be referenced. I pray it may unfold unharassed by Trinitarian apologists. Let me have just one thread.

The rabid refusal to discuss this was clearly seen in the Heresy Protestant Style thread. Narrowing the topic of discussion to what is required for salvation according to Scripture launched into dozens of posts apologizing for Trinitarianism. That is how ingrained this heresy is; a false direct connection to salvation is how Trinitarian apologists react. And this leads to the most glaring case against the trinity. The trinity is not in the Bible and Jesus never said to worship a triune God. A most inconvenient fact for Trinitarians who will invoke all manner of logical fallacies and distortions of language to support their idol.

This Scriptural fact alone should be enough to make the case against Trinitarianism. "There is no there, there" as the saying goes. If there was no evidence that OJ killed his wife, that alone would be sufficient to close the case. And I can hardly imagine a stronger anti-trinitarian statement than Saint Paul made:

For us, there is one God, the Father
1 Corinthians 8:6

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The Case Against Trinitarianism