Specifically, I will quote the following that was posted in the other thread without the author's attribution so as to not be guilty of bashing another user;
"A Christian is someone who accepts Christ as his/her Savior. The Bible says the wages of sin is death. But as a Christian that Christ has saved, we have died to sin. Christ died only once for ALL SIN. Paul points out that we no longer are subject to the wages of sin. How many times are you going to crucify Jesus before you accept GRACE. In Ephesians Paul tells the "Christian" thief to STOP stealing. He didn't tell him to go and beg forgiveness. Why not? Because he's already been forgiven. He told him to start doing what's right, get a job, and help the needy. A Christian is no longer UNDER the law. That is what GRACE is all about. We are freed from the penalty of sin."
To me, it seems as though the poster is saying that simply accepting Christ is a kind of spiritual "Get Out Of Jail Free" card. Various scriptural verses are often cherrypicked in an attempt to justify a position. The question remains then, is it Scripturally sound to contend that a Christian is no longer "under the law"?
In Matthew 5:1-20 Yeshua says: "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I would therefor ask you has the law been fulfilled? Has Heaven & Earth Passed? Has the Messiah returned to claim his own?
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Does that not sound very much like Yeshua is saying whoever breaks the commandments or teaches others to break the commandments has a very real problem regarding attaining heaven?
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
"Righteousness" here is an interesting word. Righteousness is defined as; "morally good :following religious or moral laws. That sounds an awful lot like Yeshua is referring to the Decalogue.
In reading Paul, in context it's obvious that Paul himself believed in keeping the Law:
Acts 24:14 (NKJV) - "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
Acts 25:8 - while he answered for himself, "Neither against the Law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all."
Acts 18:21 - but took leave of them, saying, "I must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, Yahweh willing." And he sailed from Ephesus.
Romans 7:25 - I thank Yahweh--through Yahushua the Messiah our Master! So then, with the mind I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, but with the flesh the Law of sin.
Paul says that the doers of the Law will be justified and those who break it will be judged:
Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law will be justified;
He says that when we break the Law, we dishonor Yahweh and blaspheme His name:
Romans 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the Law, do you dishonor Yahweh through breaking the Law? 24 For "the name of Yahweh is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written.
Paul twice states that we learn what sin is from the Law. This backs up the statement in 1John 3:4 that Sin is transgression of the Law.
Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."
Here is a key scripture proving that Paul believed that thru faith we do not make the Law void, but rather we establish the Law:
Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
I would make one other point regarding allowing celebrations of pagan observances or the "Christianization" of pagan observances.
Let’s be clear: the Lord God is aware that there are “no other gods”. He knows that Ba’al and Ashtoreth and Marduk and Zeus and Allah and all the rest are but ridiculous names for figments of men’s fertile imaginations. But men have always thought otherwise.
God is quite confident that the planets and stars and moons that He created are just that: created things (balls of rocks or gases) that have no souls and no divine powers. But men often think otherwise.
I say this because even though “no other gods” exist in any kind of physical or spiritual form, they do exist within the evil inclinations of humans.
So when your Pastors and Rabbis remind you that Messiah and the Apostles warn that money, wealth, power, your job, your status in society or anything that we put tremendous hope or stock in can be rather easily and unconsciously elevated to a position of “other gods”, this is not allegory.
This is not divine hyperbole meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Money is no more inherently a god than the moon, or a standing stone, or a carved image. But neither is money any different in its ability to corrupt and become elevated to a position of supreme importance than the moon, or a standing stone, or a carved image.
It’s all one big ball of wax and so we can all be tempted to commit idolatry with any of those things and pretend that this actually a godly thing. Be very leery of the latest avenue of apostasy and idolatry within God’s church: the Prosperity Doctrine.
I share this, not because I am any authority, not because I am more righteous than anyone else but simply because too many times my Brothers and Sisters in faith have relied on "tradition", (much as the legalistic Pharasees relied on Rabbinic interpretation of the Talmud rather than the Word from Torah), rather than the Word of God.
Hopefully, some will find this useful, if not in whole, at least in part. As many of the 12 step programs advise; take what I have shared with a grain of salt and, "Take what you need and leave the rest".
Last edited by tortminder; Today at 07:10 PM.. Reason: misspelling
Salvation and redemption
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